gnupic: Thread: Re: [gnupic] WISP628 programmer layout design?

On 2/4/06, Jay Dagenais ####@####.#### wrote:
> Hi all, I hope that this is not too off topic for the forum, but am seeking
> a board layout file for the WISP628 PIC programmer design that is available
> online freely and for sale as a built unit, the site provides virtually
> everything but no layout file for the schematic.

You are not allowed to post the layout online. Please read the
"Legal notes" section from Wouter's website.
http://www.voti.nl/wisp628/index_1.html

It specificly says that you can not provide the deign to the public.
"It is allowed to design and make a Wisp628 PCB, but it is not allowed to
have it made for you by a PCB company, nor is it allowed to sell such a
PCB, or to provide the PCB design to the general public."

Anyway, I do not think it is too difficult to build you own Wisp628A
using the schematics. To be honest, my wisp628a is still on a breadboard
with flying wires (a shame, I know) but it simply works.

Be careful with the serial cable though, low quality cable will have
problem with communication.

The best software to go with Wisp628A is xwisp2 from Rob Hamerling.
http://www.robh.nl/picsoft.php

Regards,
Xiaofan

Yeah, sorry about that, I guess upon further review of the page this is 
correct and I should not have even asked- I guess I will have to depend on 
my breadboarding for now. I do have a coupld of perhaps silly questions 
regarding the schematic, such as what are the lines which break with a 
circle supposed to run into? Are these to a positive common source which 
they all meet/branch from? I assume that the arrows pointing downwards are 
the common ground lines? So this programmer gets its power from the hosting 
computer, no? and the 13V needed is generated from the? I think that I need 
a bit of an explanaition-more than what the page describes, because I don't 
know what the charge pump is, looks like a coupld of caps to me and a coupld 
of diodes for protection, but I don't know anything so...You mention that 
you have a breadboarded version already, how many types of PIC's have you 
programmed with it so far, and were there changes to the design that were 
necessary to implement programming of certain types? One last question I 
have regards the type of PIC used in the programmer, does this PIC have to 
be a 16F628, or could one use a PIC18F252 for example? The reason I ask is 
that I have one of those EZ-controllers, which is a 18F252 with a serial 
bootloader on board, and is able to be programmed with a PC and cable. I was 
thinking that I may be able to use this for the PIC in the programmer untill 
I can get a coupld of PIC's loaded, then swap out or whatever? Alternatly, 
does anyone know if these modules are able to program PIC's other than the 
onboard 18F? There is the programming port(three pins) then up atthe top 
there are two other sets of three, with an RX and TX, so this could be 
doable, no?


>From: Xiaofan Chen ####@####.####
>Reply-To: ####@####.####
>To: ####@####.####
>Subject: Re: [gnupic] WISP628 programmer layout design?
>Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 09:41:30 +0800
>
>On 2/4/06, Jay Dagenais ####@####.#### wrote:
> > Hi all, I hope that this is not too off topic for the forum, but am 
>seeking
> > a board layout file for the WISP628 PIC programmer design that is 
>available
> > online freely and for sale as a built unit, the site provides virtually
> > everything but no layout file for the schematic.
>
>You are not allowed to post the layout online. Please read the
>"Legal notes" section from Wouter's website.
>http://www.voti.nl/wisp628/index_1.html
>
>It specificly says that you can not provide the deign to the public.
>"It is allowed to design and make a Wisp628 PCB, but it is not allowed to
>have it made for you by a PCB company, nor is it allowed to sell such a
>PCB, or to provide the PCB design to the general public."
>
>Anyway, I do not think it is too difficult to build you own Wisp628A
>using the schematics. To be honest, my wisp628a is still on a breadboard
>with flying wires (a shame, I know) but it simply works.
>
>Be careful with the serial cable though, low quality cable will have
>problem with communication.
>
>The best software to go with Wisp628A is xwisp2 from Rob Hamerling.
>http://www.robh.nl/picsoft.php
>
>Regards,
>Xiaofan
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: ####@####.####
>For additional commands, e-mail: ####@####.####
>

_________________________________________________________________
Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! 
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/

Jay Dagenais wrote:
> Yeah, sorry about that, I guess upon further review of the page this 
> is correct and I should not have even asked- I guess I will have to 
> depend on my breadboarding for now. 
Buying the kit from Wouter, with all the parts, is so inexpensive that I 
don't know why you would even consider breadboarding it.  And it is very 
easy to build (it was  the first programmer I built, and worked first try).

Jay,

I have a home brew serial port programmer based on a 18F1320. It differs
from the Wisp-628
in that it uses an external supply to generate 13V and 5V and it only
knows how to program
18f1320 and 18f252 parts. I use Linux and put the burn command in the
"make" file which
provides a seamless path to running PIC chip. I built the first board
with an iron on transfer
film system in the garage and purchased a couple of blank boards last
year.

I used a WARP-13A to create a 16F628 based programmer which only
programmed 18F1320's
to bootstrap the current design. Tried to implement the 16F burn
procedures but gave up.

The schematic, artwork, embedded code, and host code could be available
with the understanding
that there is NO support. 

George

On Sun, 2006-02-05 at 13:38 -0800, Jay Dagenais wrote:

> Yeah, sorry about that, I guess upon further review of the page this is 
> correct and I should not have even asked- I guess I will have to depend on 
> my breadboarding for now. I do have a coupld of perhaps silly questions 
> regarding the schematic, such as what are the lines which break with a 
> circle supposed to run into? Are these to a positive common source which 
> they all meet/branch from? I assume that the arrows pointing downwards are 
> the common ground lines? So this programmer gets its power from the hosting 
> computer, no? and the 13V needed is generated from the? I think that I need 
> a bit of an explanaition-more than what the page describes, because I don't 
> know what the charge pump is, looks like a coupld of caps to me and a coupld 
> of diodes for protection, but I don't know anything so...You mention that 
> you have a breadboarded version already, how many types of PIC's have you 
> programmed with it so far, and were there changes to the design that were 
> necessary to implement programming of certain types? One last question I 
> have regards the type of PIC used in the programmer, does this PIC have to 
> be a 16F628, or could one use a PIC18F252 for example? The reason I ask is 
> that I have one of those EZ-controllers, which is a 18F252 with a serial 
> bootloader on board, and is able to be programmed with a PC and cable. I was 
> thinking that I may be able to use this for the PIC in the programmer untill 
> I can get a coupld of PIC's loaded, then swap out or whatever? Alternatly, 
> does anyone know if these modules are able to program PIC's other than the 
> onboard 18F? There is the programming port(three pins) then up atthe top 
> there are two other sets of three, with an RX and TX, so this could be 
> doable, no?
> 
> 
> >From: Xiaofan Chen ####@####.####
> >Reply-To: ####@####.####
> >To: ####@####.####
> >Subject: Re: [gnupic] WISP628 programmer layout design?
> >Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 09:41:30 +0800
> >
> >On 2/4/06, Jay Dagenais ####@####.#### wrote:
> > > Hi all, I hope that this is not too off topic for the forum, but am 
> >seeking
> > > a board layout file for the WISP628 PIC programmer design that is 
> >available
> > > online freely and for sale as a built unit, the site provides virtually
> > > everything but no layout file for the schematic.
> >
> >You are not allowed to post the layout online. Please read the
> >"Legal notes" section from Wouter's website.
> >http://www.voti.nl/wisp628/index_1.html
> >
> >It specificly says that you can not provide the deign to the public.
> >"It is allowed to design and make a Wisp628 PCB, but it is not allowed to
> >have it made for you by a PCB company, nor is it allowed to sell such a
> >PCB, or to provide the PCB design to the general public."
> >
> >Anyway, I do not think it is too difficult to build you own Wisp628A
> >using the schematics. To be honest, my wisp628a is still on a breadboard
> >with flying wires (a shame, I know) but it simply works.
> >
> >Be careful with the serial cable though, low quality cable will have
> >problem with communication.
> >
> >The best software to go with Wisp628A is xwisp2 from Rob Hamerling.
> >http://www.robh.nl/picsoft.php
> >
> >Regards,
> >Xiaofan
> >
> >---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >To unsubscribe, e-mail: ####@####.####
> >For additional commands, e-mail: ####@####.####
> >
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! 
> http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: ####@####.####
> For additional commands, e-mail: ####@####.####
> 

Mostly because I want to takkle the experience and aolso because I am in 
Canada and just don't like to wait, like you said yourself, very easy to 
build- but to the beginner, even the easy things are not so straightforward, 
such as the questions I posted regarding the design schematic. Thanks! 
jaydag71


>From: John Nall ####@####.####
>Reply-To: ####@####.####
>To: ####@####.####
>Subject: Re: [gnupic] WISP628 programmer layout design?
>Date: Sun, 05 Feb 2006 17:05:17 -0500
>
>Jay Dagenais wrote:
>>Yeah, sorry about that, I guess upon further review of the page this is 
>>correct and I should not have even asked- I guess I will have to depend on 
>>my breadboarding for now.
>Buying the kit from Wouter, with all the parts, is so inexpensive that I 
>don't know why you would even consider breadboarding it.  And it is very 
>easy to build (it was  the first programmer I built, and worked first try).
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: ####@####.####
>For additional commands, e-mail: ####@####.####
>

_________________________________________________________________
Take charge with a pop-up guard built on patented Microsoft® SmartScreen 
Technology. 
http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines 
  Start enjoying all the benefits of MSN® Premium right now and get the 
first two months FREE*.

Yes I would be very interested in checking out these solutions, as the whole 
aspect of "charge pumps" is new to me so something using the external supply 
would be more my pace at thispoint perhaps, not to mention I'm sure there 
are other like myself out there who are not using any of the older PIC's or 
even any of the 16 series that alot of the free programmers implement.

Anyone else out there, if you have documented your endevours, learning 
curves, experiments and are willing to provide a link or attchment I'm sure 
that I would not be the only happy recipient! Thanks all!jaydag71


>From: "George M. Gallant, Jr." ####@####.####
>Reply-To: ####@####.####
>To: ####@####.####
>Subject: Re: [gnupic] WISP628 programmer layout design?
>Date: Sun, 05 Feb 2006 17:18:37 -0500
>
>Jay,
>
>I have a home brew serial port programmer based on a 18F1320. It differs
>from the Wisp-628
>in that it uses an external supply to generate 13V and 5V and it only
>knows how to program
>18f1320 and 18f252 parts. I use Linux and put the burn command in the
>"make" file which
>provides a seamless path to running PIC chip. I built the first board
>with an iron on transfer
>film system in the garage and purchased a couple of blank boards last
>year.
>
>I used a WARP-13A to create a 16F628 based programmer which only
>programmed 18F1320's
>to bootstrap the current design. Tried to implement the 16F burn
>procedures but gave up.
>
>The schematic, artwork, embedded code, and host code could be available
>with the understanding
>that there is NO support.
>
>George
>
>On Sun, 2006-02-05 at 13:38 -0800, Jay Dagenais wrote:
>
> > Yeah, sorry about that, I guess upon further review of the page this is
> > correct and I should not have even asked- I guess I will have to depend 
>on
> > my breadboarding for now. I do have a coupld of perhaps silly questions
> > regarding the schematic, such as what are the lines which break with a
> > circle supposed to run into? Are these to a positive common source which
> > they all meet/branch from? I assume that the arrows pointing downwards 
>are
> > the common ground lines? So this programmer gets its power from the 
>hosting
> > computer, no? and the 13V needed is generated from the? I think that I 
>need
> > a bit of an explanaition-more than what the page describes, because I 
>don't
> > know what the charge pump is, looks like a coupld of caps to me and a 
>coupld
> > of diodes for protection, but I don't know anything so...You mention 
>that
> > you have a breadboarded version already, how many types of PIC's have 
>you
> > programmed with it so far, and were there changes to the design that 
>were
> > necessary to implement programming of certain types? One last question I
> > have regards the type of PIC used in the programmer, does this PIC have 
>to
> > be a 16F628, or could one use a PIC18F252 for example? The reason I ask 
>is
> > that I have one of those EZ-controllers, which is a 18F252 with a serial
> > bootloader on board, and is able to be programmed with a PC and cable. I 
>was
> > thinking that I may be able to use this for the PIC in the programmer 
>untill
> > I can get a coupld of PIC's loaded, then swap out or whatever? 
>Alternatly,
> > does anyone know if these modules are able to program PIC's other than 
>the
> > onboard 18F? There is the programming port(three pins) then up atthe top
> > there are two other sets of three, with an RX and TX, so this could be
> > doable, no?
> >
> >
> > >From: Xiaofan Chen ####@####.####
> > >Reply-To: ####@####.####
> > >To: ####@####.####
> > >Subject: Re: [gnupic] WISP628 programmer layout design?
> > >Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 09:41:30 +0800
> > >
> > >On 2/4/06, Jay Dagenais ####@####.#### wrote:
> > > > Hi all, I hope that this is not too off topic for the forum, but am
> > >seeking
> > > > a board layout file for the WISP628 PIC programmer design that is
> > >available
> > > > online freely and for sale as a built unit, the site provides 
>virtually
> > > > everything but no layout file for the schematic.
> > >
> > >You are not allowed to post the layout online. Please read the
> > >"Legal notes" section from Wouter's website.
> > >http://www.voti.nl/wisp628/index_1.html
> > >
> > >It specificly says that you can not provide the deign to the public.
> > >"It is allowed to design and make a Wisp628 PCB, but it is not allowed 
>to
> > >have it made for you by a PCB company, nor is it allowed to sell such a
> > >PCB, or to provide the PCB design to the general public."
> > >
> > >Anyway, I do not think it is too difficult to build you own Wisp628A
> > >using the schematics. To be honest, my wisp628a is still on a 
>breadboard
> > >with flying wires (a shame, I know) but it simply works.
> > >
> > >Be careful with the serial cable though, low quality cable will have
> > >problem with communication.
> > >
> > >The best software to go with Wisp628A is xwisp2 from Rob Hamerling.
> > >http://www.robh.nl/picsoft.php
> > >
> > >Regards,
> > >Xiaofan
> > >
> > >---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >To unsubscribe, e-mail: ####@####.####
> > >For additional commands, e-mail: ####@####.####
> > >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
> > http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: ####@####.####
> > For additional commands, e-mail: ####@####.####
> >

_________________________________________________________________
Take charge with a pop-up guard built on patented Microsoft® SmartScreen 
Technology  
http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines 
  Start enjoying all the benefits of MSN® Premium right now and get the 
first two months FREE*.

Jay Dagenais wrote:
> > Mostly because I want to takkle the experience and aolso because I 
> am in Canada and just don't like to wait, like you said yourself, very 
> easy to build- but to the beginner, even the easy things are not so 
> straightforward, such as the questions I posted regarding the design 
> schematic. Thanks! jaydag71

OK, whatever.    However, I can absolutely, 100% assure you that 
breadboarding it from a schematic is going to be harder than building 
from a kit, by an order of magnitude!  :-)  I'm not sure what being in 
Canada has to do with it, but in the past ordering stuff from voti.nl 
has been easier and quicker (for me, anyway) than ordering from within 
the US (where I am).  On the other hand, though, I will admit that you 
will learn more from breadboarding it, so there are tradeoffs.

At any rate, best of luck.  I have had my Wisp628 for several years now, 
and am really pleased with it. 

John

I second that. Having a pre-built PCB is magnitudes easier than building 
your own.

John Nall wrote:

> Jay Dagenais wrote:
>
>> Yeah, sorry about that, I guess upon further review of the page this 
>> is correct and I should not have even asked- I guess I will have to 
>> depend on my breadboarding for now. 
>
> Buying the kit from Wouter, with all the parts, is so inexpensive that 
> I don't know why you would even consider breadboarding it.  And it is 
> very easy to build (it was  the first programmer I built, and worked 
> first try).
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: ####@####.####
> For additional commands, e-mail: ####@####.####
>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jay Dagenais 
> Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 5:38 AM
> To: ####@####.####
> Subject: Re: [gnupic] WISP628 programmer layout design?
>
> So this programmer gets its power from the hosting 
> computer, no? and the 13V needed is generated from the? I think 
> that I need a bit of an explanation-more than what the page 
> describes, because I don't know what the charge pump is, looks 
> like a couple of caps to me and a couple of diodes for protection, 
> but I don't know anything so...

I guess you will be better off buying the kit from Wouter. Wisp628A
needs a 5V supply. It generates Vpp using the charge pump. Google
will tell you what is a charge pump. I will say it is not as 
easy to understand as other circuits but you can try to build it
and measure the voltage and waveforms at different points.

> You mention that you have a breadboard version already, how many types 
> of PIC's have you programmed with it so far, and were there changes to 
> the design that were necessary to implement programming of certain types? 

I have used it to program many PICs (12F629/12F683/16F630/16F636/
16F684/18F252/18F2550/18F2580 and some others for testing of
xwisp2w) and you do not need to change the programmer in order to 
do that. The only limitation is the dongle needed to program certain 
PICs (eg: 12F629/12F675/16F630/16F676) with certain configurations
(internal oscillator and internal MCLR). In general I think Wisp628A 
is a good programmer to have and it will be worth the money to buy the 
kit from Wouter.

Another possibility is to buy the PICKit 2 from Microchip. 

> One last question I have regards the type of PIC used in the 
> programmer, does this PIC have to be a 16F628, or could one 
> use a PIC18F252 for example? 

This PIC has to be a 16F628A and you can not use a PIC18F252.
The firmware is designed for 16F628/16F628A/16F648A so you
may be able to use 16F628 or 16F648A as well but I have not
tried those two. 16F628 is an old part anyway.

To be honest, I do not think building a programmer is a very
good exercise for learning electronics. To interface the PIC
with outside world will be more rewarding.

Regards,
Xiaofan