Subject:
[gnupic] gnupic and PIC Programmer and Test Bed Kit (Australia)
From:
Bill Freeman ####@####.####
Date:
16 Jun 2005 00:06:31 +0100
Message-Id: <17072.46277.974213.923408@localhost.localdomain>
Stuart Woolford writes:
...
> I live in Australia, and am about to begin exploring pic programming
> (namely the pic16f84/a, which I guess is a good one for beginners? My
I strongly suggest that you go with the PIC16F648A. It's a
superset of the old 'F84. Code written for the 'F84 will run on the
'F684 with few changes (the config word probably isn't compatible, but
if done with symbols from the processor specific include files, might
just work if re-assembled). In the January through April DigiKey
catalog the cheapest 'F84 is the PIC16F84A-04/P at $5.63 in quantity
1, and $3.42 in quantity 100 (US dollars). The PIC16F648A-I/P is $3.48
quantity 1, and $1.83 quantity 100.
That particular 'F84 will only guarantee a 4MHz clock, while
all of the 'F648s will do 20. Other differences: 4k versus 1k of
program store, 256 versus 68 bytes of RAM, 256 versus 64 bytes of data
EEPROM, 3 timers versus 1 timer, 1 UART versus none (makes MIDI a lot
easier), 1 capture/compare/PWM module versus none, 2 analog
comparitors with voltage reference versus none, because the 'F648 can
run on an internal RC oscilator and because it can adequately self
reset on power up or brown out, up to 16 of the 18 pins can be used
for I/O, versus 13 on the 'F84, though they are otherwise pin
compatible. (It is possible that plain 'F84As these days will go down
to 2.0 volts for the power supply, while you would have to spring for
an 'LF684A to get that, and I don't see DigiKey offering the LF684As.)
I really don't think that you can go wrong, especially if you don't
already own a programmer that only does the 'F84.
> main purpose with this project is to construct midi input devices). I
> have been looking at various pic programming beds, and I am thinking
> that maybe the Silicon Chip PIC Programmer and testbed (available from
> Dick Smith Electronics
> (http://www.dse.com.au/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/
> 42a7f8320937f6462740c0a87f9c06fa/Product/View/K3603) is probably the
> way to go. Has any one else had any experience with this programmer
> (either in Australia or elsewhere), and can they tell me wether I may
> program a pic16f84 with this bed in conjunction with the gnupic/gpasm
> tools? Is the choice of a pic bed and the compiler tools fairly
> arbitrary, as long as they can both do the same microcontroller? Thank
> you very very much for your time, and I apologise in advance if theses
> questions aren't for this list, or my terminology is a bit out of whack
> (I'm very new!).
You will probably get much better information from others on
this. Since the programmer only mentions the 'F84s, there may be
difficulty using the 'F648 and other newer parts with it, though since
it mentions the 'F84A, the hardware is probably capable of programming
other 18 pin flash devices (probably anyway). Whether there are
limitations in the supplied software is another issue. The other
Silicon Chip programmer that Dick Smith has mentions 18 pin devices
through the 'F628A (less capable than the 'F648, but still worlds
better than the 'F84). Possibly they have equivalent programmer
portions and can use the same software. Perhaps you can spend the
time to correspond with Silicon Chip over this.
I use an old design called a PICALL that has been easily
upgraded for new PICs, usually just by upgrading a configuration file.
Most programmers should require no more than upgraded host software.
A lot of the really simple programmers are mostly implemented in
software. But some may have part of the algorithms implemented in an
onboard microcontroller, and might be tougher to upgrade. (PICALL is
still available, and will program 28 and 40 pin parts as well as 8 and
18 pin parts, including some of the old parallel programmed parts. It
also programs some other brands, like the SX microcontrollers. If I
understand correctly, it is no longer under active development - real
parallel ports are getting harder to fine - so it may not have grown
to include the 14 and 6 pin parts.)
You mention wanting to use the gnupic tools. I take this
to mean that you want to develop using something other than Windows.
If this is so, realize that the software that comes with the Silicon
Chips parts is for Windows. Whether it will run under WINE is an
open question. Certainly, the .HEX files produced by the gnupic
chain are compatible with those produced by MicroChip's tools (though
you may have to fool around getting the right form of line endings
in some files, but that's easy). There are some simple programmers
that have open source host code. I haven't used them, but others
will let you know.
Unless the budget has no stretch, it is worth considering
MicroChip's ICD2, and maybe a PICDEM board. The ICD2 will program an
awful lot of PICs (though you have to provide a suitable adapter
between the 6 pin modular plug and the PIC, which the PICDEM, at least
a PICDEM2 Plus, does for some parts). Earlier this year, an ICD2 with
wall wart, cables, and a PICDEM2 Plus was $229US. In circuit
debugging can help quite a bit, especially for a beginner. Because
ICD2 supports both serial (RS-232) and USB attachment, it will even
work with that new laptop that has neither serial nor parallel ports.
Again, you are stuck with Windows (at least for now) to run the
software. gpsim was made to run with the old ICD, so there is some
hope for ICD2, at least when serial port connected. I'll let you know
if I ever make it work with WINE.
Good luck,
Bill
