gnupic: Thread: Need help getting code onto 16F877A

I want to use a PIC16F877A in my next project, but I'm having trouble 
getting a program onto the PIC. First of all, I want to disable low 
voltage programming. Secondly, I have tried a number of the simple to 
build programmers in the past, and they worked, but soon failed 
mysteriously and I was never able to get the same design, even with 
different parts, to work again.

I have a Warp-13a programmer. I got it long enough ago that its firmware 
does not support the 16F87xA. I also haven't seen any Linux support for 
using the Warp-13a to put code onto a 16F87xA, so upgrading firmware won't 
help.

In light of all this, I decided to make my own programmer using a PIC that
I could program. I made a prototype with a 16F84 (it's in C, so other
parts should be easily used). It can read data from other PICs. Over the
past few days I have tried to make it write data, too, but it still
doesn't work and I don't know how to fix it. The problem seems to be in my
impementation of the communication between the programmer and the target
-- the part that Microchip documents.  Ironically, they don't document
reading as well, but that's what I got to work.

Can gpism emulate a PIC being reprogrammed by another PIC? I'd look on the 
site, but I can't get a whole page from dattalo.com right now.

Any help is greatly appreciated. I put the code I have at
http://ro.com/~jeffj/projects/loader.tar.bz2 for anyone who actually wants
to look.  All GPL'd stuff. I think the problem is in PIC14.c.

-- 
Jeff Jackowski
        http://ro.com/~jeffj/

> I want to use a PIC16F877A in my next project, but I'm having trouble 
> getting a program onto the PIC. First of all, I want to disable low 
> voltage programming.

No problem. All you need is a high voltage programmer.

> Secondly, I have tried a number of the simple to 
> build programmers in the past, and they worked, but soon failed 
> mysteriously and I was never able to get the same design, even with 
> different parts, to work again.
> 
> I have a Warp-13a programmer. I got it long enough ago that its firmware 
> does not support the 16F87xA. I also haven't seen any Linux support for 
> using the Warp-13a to put code onto a 16F87xA, so upgrading firmware won't 
> help.
> 
> In light of all this, I decided to make my own programmer using a PIC that
> I could program. I made a prototype with a 16F84 (it's in C, so other
> parts should be easily used). It can read data from other PICs. Over the
> past few days I have tried to make it write data, too, but it still
> doesn't work and I don't know how to fix it. The problem seems to be in my
> impementation of the communication between the programmer and the target
> -- the part that Microchip documents.  Ironically, they don't document
> reading as well, but that's what I got to work.
> 
> Can gpism emulate a PIC being reprogrammed by another PIC? I'd look on the 
> site, but I can't get a whole page from dattalo.com right now.
> 
> Any help is greatly appreciated. I put the code I have at
> http://ro.com/~jeffj/projects/loader.tar.bz2 for anyone who actually wants
> to look.  All GPL'd stuff. I think the problem is in PIC14.c.

Jeff,

I really think you should save yourself the headaches of trying to do it all
over again.

First off is the simple fact that the 16F877A (note the A) has a different
programming algorithm that its predecessors. That's why none of the programmers
work for it.

Secondly the job has already been done. Wouter van Ooijen's Wisp628 has 
everything but the programming socket:

* Programs 16F87XA and 18FXXX parts
* High voltage
* ICSP connector
* Serial Interface
* Programming software written in Python, so it works on Windows and Linux.

It's a no brainer. You can use your current programmer to burn a PIC16F628
for the project.

Also it's a tough road redoing everything from scratch. Adding 16F87XA and 
18FXXX support to picprg2.3 is on my copious to do list. But since the
software is well tested with 16F87X and 16F62X parts, you can start from
a working base instead of having to build one from scratch. My LVP and HVP
programmers and the sofware can be found at http://www.finitesite.com/d3jsys

Good Luck,

BAJ

On Mon, 17 Mar 2003, Byron A Jeff wrote:


> > 
> > Can gpism emulate a PIC being reprogrammed by another PIC? I'd look on the 
> > site, but I can't get a whole page from dattalo.com right now.

no. However, it would be possible to do this through the module interface.

BTW, the my web page is slow/dead is because of a router upstream of my 
ISP. It's been flakey for about three months now. (The company is 
gatespeed.com. On the count of three everyone type:

ping -f gatespeed.com

(I'm just joking, of course).)

Scott

Jeff

I found in the past , programming the 877A is not easy with our kind of
small programmers.

Why dont you try PIC16F877 instead? It is basically the same...

Then you can use a lot of programmers out there. I am still unable to
get it working on Linux, but in m$oft the FPP software works pretty
descent with the TLVP (Trivial Low Voltage Programmer)

Also, as you want to disable low voltage, you can put a transistor in
On/Off mode, to get High Voltage (+3.5 of Vcc for real) in the Vpp pin.

Regards!

Gustavo


On Mon, 2003-03-17 at 18:16, Jeff Jackowski wrote:
> I want to use a PIC16F877A in my next project, but I'm having trouble 
> getting a program onto the PIC. First of all, I want to disable low 
> voltage programming. Secondly, I have tried a number of the simple to 
> build programmers in the past, and they worked, but soon failed 
> mysteriously and I was never able to get the same design, even with 
> different parts, to work again.
> 
> I have a Warp-13a programmer. I got it long enough ago that its firmware 
> does not support the 16F87xA. I also haven't seen any Linux support for 
> using the Warp-13a to put code onto a 16F87xA, so upgrading firmware won't 
> help.
> 
> In light of all this, I decided to make my own programmer using a PIC that
> I could program. I made a prototype with a 16F84 (it's in C, so other
> parts should be easily used). It can read data from other PICs. Over the
> past few days I have tried to make it write data, too, but it still
> doesn't work and I don't know how to fix it. The problem seems to be in my
> impementation of the communication between the programmer and the target
> -- the part that Microchip documents.  Ironically, they don't document
> reading as well, but that's what I got to work.
> 
> Can gpism emulate a PIC being reprogrammed by another PIC? I'd look on the 
> site, but I can't get a whole page from dattalo.com right now.
> 
> Any help is greatly appreciated. I put the code I have at
> http://ro.com/~jeffj/projects/loader.tar.bz2 for anyone who actually wants
> to look.  All GPL'd stuff. I think the problem is in PIC14.c.
-- 
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Gustavo Lozano wrote:
> Jeff
> 
> I found in the past , programming the 877A is not easy with our kind of
> small programmers.
> 
> Why dont you try PIC16F877 instead? It is basically the same...

Mostly because in the future we'll have to. Microchip is discontinuing the 16F877; in the future, only the updated part will be available.

On Mon, 17 Mar 2003, Byron A Jeff wrote:

>Jeff,
>
>I really think you should save yourself the headaches of trying to do it all
>over again.
>
>First off is the simple fact that the 16F877A (note the A) has a different
>programming algorithm that its predecessors. That's why none of the programmers
>work for it.
>
>Secondly the job has already been done. Wouter van Ooijen's Wisp628 has 
>everything but the programming socket:
>
>* Programs 16F87XA and 18FXXX parts
>* High voltage
>* ICSP connector
>* Serial Interface
>* Programming software written in Python, so it works on Windows and Linux.
>
>It's a no brainer. You can use your current programmer to burn a PIC16F628
>for the project.

Thanks for mentioning the Wisp628; I didn't manage to come across it
before. Unfortunately, I don't have a PIC16F628 on hand, and the software
I use with the Warp-13a doesn't claim to support it (but if its a short
enough program, I could call it a 16F84).

However, the source for Wisp628 is fairly easy to read, and I saw how my 
code differed from Ooijen's. After enabling code protection on a couple 
16F84's, I was able to get my programmer to work. There are still some 
bugs (like the code protection disable doesn't work), but I was able to 
get a bootloader onto a 16F877A, so I'm happy.

Maybe not the best solution, but now I can at least say that I made a PIC 
programmer, for what that's worth. I'll probably build a Wisp628 
eventually.

-- 
Jeff Jackowski
        http://ro.com/~jeffj/

> 
> On Mon, 17 Mar 2003, Byron A Jeff wrote:
> 
> >Jeff,
> >
> >I really think you should save yourself the headaches of trying to do it all
> >over again.
> >
> >First off is the simple fact that the 16F877A (note the A) has a different
> >programming algorithm that its predecessors. That's why none of the programmers
> >work for it.
> >
> >Secondly the job has already been done. Wouter van Ooijen's Wisp628 has 
> >everything but the programming socket:
> >
> >* Programs 16F87XA and 18FXXX parts
> >* High voltage
> >* ICSP connector
> >* Serial Interface
> >* Programming software written in Python, so it works on Windows and Linux.
> >
> >It's a no brainer. You can use your current programmer to burn a PIC16F628
> >for the project.
> 
> Thanks for mentioning the Wisp628; I didn't manage to come across it
> before. Unfortunately, I don't have a PIC16F628 on hand, and the software
> I use with the Warp-13a doesn't claim to support it (but if its a short
> enough program, I could call it a 16F84).
> 
> However, the source for Wisp628 is fairly easy to read, and I saw how my 
> code differed from Ooijen's. After enabling code protection on a couple 
> 16F84's, I was able to get my programmer to work. There are still some 
> bugs (like the code protection disable doesn't work), but I was able to 
> get a bootloader onto a 16F877A, so I'm happy.
> 
> Maybe not the best solution, but now I can at least say that I made a PIC 
> programmer, for what that's worth. I'll probably build a Wisp628 
> eventually.

Glad you got it going!

BAJ

Too much hassles with PIC MCUs.  I'm thinking to switch to
Atmel's AVRs.

- Mengjin -

-----Original Message-----
From: ####@####.#### ####@####.####
Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2003 4:09 PM
To: ####@####.####
Cc: ####@####.#### ####@####.####
Subject: Re: Need help getting code onto 16F877A


> 
> On Mon, 17 Mar 2003, Byron A Jeff wrote:
> 
> >Jeff,
> >
> >I really think you should save yourself the headaches of trying to do it all
> >over again.
> >
> >First off is the simple fact that the 16F877A (note the A) has a different
> >programming algorithm that its predecessors. That's why none of the programmers
> >work for it.
> >
> >Secondly the job has already been done. Wouter van Ooijen's Wisp628 has 
> >everything but the programming socket:
> >
> >* Programs 16F87XA and 18FXXX parts
> >* High voltage
> >* ICSP connector
> >* Serial Interface
> >* Programming software written in Python, so it works on Windows and Linux.
> >
> >It's a no brainer. You can use your current programmer to burn a PIC16F628
> >for the project.
> 
> Thanks for mentioning the Wisp628; I didn't manage to come across it
> before. Unfortunately, I don't have a PIC16F628 on hand, and the software
> I use with the Warp-13a doesn't claim to support it (but if its a short
> enough program, I could call it a 16F84).
> 
> However, the source for Wisp628 is fairly easy to read, and I saw how my 
> code differed from Ooijen's. After enabling code protection on a couple 
> 16F84's, I was able to get my programmer to work. There are still some 
> bugs (like the code protection disable doesn't work), but I was able to 
> get a bootloader onto a 16F877A, so I'm happy.
> 
> Maybe not the best solution, but now I can at least say that I made a PIC 
> programmer, for what that's worth. I'll probably build a Wisp628 
> eventually.

Glad you got it going!

BAJ

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On Tue, 18 Mar 2003 ####@####.#### wrote:

>Too much hassles with PIC MCUs.  I'm thinking to switch to
>Atmel's AVRs.

I just skimmed the docs on how to load programs onto one of the megaAVR's, 
and it doesn't look any easier than a PIC. Did I miss something?

-- 
Jeff Jackowski
        http://ro.com/~jeffj/

Jeff Jackowski said:
> On Tue, 18 Mar 2003 ####@####.#### wrote:
>
>>Too much hassles with PIC MCUs.  I'm thinking to switch to
>>Atmel's AVRs.
>
> I just skimmed the docs on how to load programs onto one of the
> megaAVR's,  and it doesn't look any easier than a PIC. Did I miss
> something?

There is a fair amount of support for the AVRs on inexpensive
commercially-available programmers, and I get the impression that the
programming algorithms don't change as much from chip to chip. I don't
much about home-brew AVR programmers, though.

However, when compared to comparably-sized AVR chips, PICs are generally
more robust to less-than-ideal power rails, and in my experience, are less
prone to destructive latchup.

The choice of a microprocessor can easily start a flame-war, but you
definitely want to take a look at some of the AVR discussion sites to see
what you're getting yourself into.

-- 
Charles Lepple ####@####.####
http://www.ghz.cc/charles/